Jason Bock

This is pretty old (I think it started circulating around 2004? [4]) and was first publicly posted at jasonbock.net[1], although his site seems to be having problems so here is a cached version [2]. The intro posted there is as follows: The following joke was posted to an internal Magenic[3] list. I don't know who actually wrote it, and I'll give credit if someone points out the creator of the joke. It perfectly illustrates what I think developers (especially consultants) have to go through all the time when they're interviewing for the next gig. [1] http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/Default.aspx?blog=entry.7c334037d1a9437d9f… [2] http://web.archive.org/web/20130210235908/http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/… [3] http://magenic.com/ [4] From the jasonbock.net post: Posted at 10.13.2004 11:38:07 AM

We shouldn't neglect to mention If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers as at http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac And similarly we should not miss the paragraph in the OP: > We always tried to be creative about probing people and their résumés. Bethany once decided to analyze the résumés of our best data-science people for common features. She found that those people shared an avid interest in music. From then on she and her team looked for that quality. She recalls, “We’d get really excited and call out, ‘Hey, I found a guy who plays piano!’” She concluded that such people can easily toggle between their left and right brains—a great skill for data analysis. "Music"!! WOW! On violin I got through the D-major section of the Bach Chaconne. Guess I should have applied to Netflix!!! Then there is the: > Say you need a software engineer. Do you want a senior programmer fluent in the best new techniques in search engine development? Hmm .... My work "in search engine development" is based on some original applied math I derived in an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. So, can Netflix advise me if my work is "in the best new techniques"? Hmm. Who in Netflix can (A) give an example of an infinite dimensional Hilbert space, (B) say what the connection with search might be, and (C) review the "best new techniques"? Hmm .... But (A) I've written some C code, but regarded it as like digging a ditch with a teaspoon, (B) never wrote…

>You generally need to bring an applicable skill to the table immediately on hire. I don't really understand this mentality unless you're talking about the first 5 employees or so. If I find someone who is otherwise great, but has experience in PHP, and my team uses Ruby, I'd rather hire that person now and spend a few weeks getting them up to speed. The alternative is to spend even more time waiting for the perfect candidate to come along who can hit the ground running. You touched on my next point a bit when you said a proven generalist. I think that if you have a strong grasp of CS fundamentals, and 5 or 10 years of experience, you should be able to pick up enough of almost any imperative language to be productive within a few weeks. I don't often use Python, but I do have years of experience with C, Ruby, Java, C# and others. The first time I needed to use Python I was able to pick up enough to get by in a weekend. The first time I used haskell, now that was a bit different. I'll leave this here. http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

I think this is the original version: http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

"But how many years of walnut do you have?" —If carpenters were hired like programmers. http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7819413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9017027

Relevant: http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

You must be the life of the party in every social gathering! I understand what you mean, my example was not very good... This guy has a better analogy (and funnier) then mine: http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

Reminds me of this: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac -- Interviewer: First of all, we're working in a subdivision building a lot of brown houses. Have you built a lot of brown houses before? Carpenter: Well, I'm a carpenter, so I build houses, and people pretty much paint them the way they want. Interviewer: Yes, I understand that, but can you give me an idea of how much experience you have with brown? Roughly. Carpenter: Gosh, I really don't know. Once they're built I don't care what color they get painted. Maybe six months?

In the end we went with a different candidate. He doesn't speak the specific language we need, but he has experience with similar words in a different language and he's a lot cheaper. And also, http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

> January 2016, I changed my job title on LinkedIn to React developer So whenever I start working on a new area, I should add that to my job title? React Carpenter? http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac Also: > 1: Multiple simple components are better than one highly customisable one No shit. Ever heard of UNIX?

Seems like this is the original: http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/Default.aspx?blog=entry.7c334037d1a9437d9f…

Oh yeah, side work. I forgot about that. To boss: "No we can't come in on Saturday because 4 out of 5 of use will be pouring my neighbors driveway" Boss: "Oh, Do you guys need to borrow the concrete tools?" Edit: This was actually a repost without attribution. Here is the real link: http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

Stolen from http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

At the top of http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac Bock says I didn't write this, so I can't take credit for it so I'm not sure failing to include his name or clickable link really qualifies as "shabby" attribution.

http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/Default.aspx?blog=entry.7c334037d1a9437d9f… If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

One of the problems IMHO is, that employers get more and more demanding. There is this joke, that fits very good: "If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers" [1] In former days, the readiness to take people and train them on the job was much higher. In Germany this is a really ugly trend. The licence for truck drivers is very, very costly but the earnings of the drivers are very low. In former days the transportation companies educated their own drivers. Today, they don't. They just expect, that the drivers somehow have to have the education and come from somewhere. What is the result: The state is in more and more cases educating unemployed people that they can become truck drivers. They pay tax money, that the transporting companies don't have to pay for it ... I don't think, that a "free market" has to mean that more and more costs have to been taken over by the state, but that is, what is happening. Today, when you apply for a job, they search for exactly those skills needed. They are not ready to train you on the job or take people that have to do a lot of learning on the job. And also in Germany: They are not ready to take people above a specific age. [1] http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac

If the only criteria is only to get "a" job, then only the ratio job applicants / job offers categorized by programming language should be taken into account. If you add other criteria, such as salary, happiness, difficulty, locality, etc, then the choice will become more difficult. That said, the programming language should just not be a consideration for a programmer or to get a programming job. Do you ask your surgeon whether he uses knifes or clams from such or such provider? Do you think that hospitals will reject a surgeon because he never worked with knifes of the same made as the ones they have and use at the hospital? A real programmer will be able to use any programming language. If you ask an experienced real programmer, he will tell you what programming language to use to write what application, and it may very well not be the same language for all your applications. (Actually, this is because languages have different features that are required or more adapted for different applications, that languages such as lisp or scheme that have a good macro system, ie. compiler hook, allowing the programmer to _change_ the language and implement domain specific language features (or use libraries implementing domain specific languages), that language as lisp are so good and should be used more, if you asked experimented programmers, instead of newbies or managers; this is also a reason why newer languages like ruby or python that try to be more like lisp have such…

"Provide evidence." For better or for worse, that's what's so frustrating about hiring/interviewing. I pay my taxes. I drive the speed limit. I never cheated in high school or college. I signed up for the Selective Service. When I see trash on the ground, I pick it up. I keep off the grass. Yet when talking to a potential employer, I magically become this shifty-eyed drifter, whose every word is suspect. "Interviewer: But how many years of walnut do you have? Carpenter: Gosh, I really don't know -- was I supposed to be counting the walnut?" (http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac… The "carpenter" thought he was just doing work. What he didn't realize was that a career in technology means always preparing for when you're next put on trial. I get it, of course. Programmers are expensive and have a ramp-up time, firing is hard so it pays to be cautious when hiring, etc. But the net effect, the defaulting to the conclusion that an interviewee is lying or stupid, is toxic.