Coding2Learn

Goes to show that nobody reads error messages and it reminds me of this old blogpost: > A kid knocks on my office door, complaining that he can't login. 'Have you forgotten your password?' I ask, but he insists he hasn't. 'What was the error message?' I ask, and he shrugs his shoulders. I follow him to the IT suite. I watch him type in his user-name and password. A message box opens up, but the kid clicks OK so quickly that I don't have time to read the message. He repeats this process three times, as if the computer will suddenly change its mind and allow him access to the network. On his third attempt I manage to get a glimpse of the message. I reach behind his computer and plug in the Ethernet cable. He can't use a computer. http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Reminds of ot his great blog post: "Kids can't use computers...and this is why it should worry you" (2013) [1]. > The truth is, kids can't use general purpose computers, and neither can most of the adults I know. There's a narrow range of individuals whom, at school, I consider technically savvy. These are roughly the thirty to fifty year-olds that have owned a computer for much of their adult lives. There are, of course, exceptions amongst the staff and students. Discussed previously on HN [2]. [1]: http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6186730

On this topic, a must read: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Classic blog post from 2013 on this subject. http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

That's absolutely not true. See e.g. how literate are people about cars, vs. how they were 40 years ago. See also the classical 2013 rant on the topic: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/.

Classic: http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

I see where you're going with this. The benefits you're getting at is worthwhile if the software brings those benefits. Most of what kids are doing on games isn't like the other things they'll be doing. The games are just designed to suck up their time if anything making them better at doing that. Lots of their fun apps, esp social media, are the same. Here's a nice article by an educator on how kids don't know how to use computers despite all the time they spend on them: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13506283 You'd have to curate the experience to do something that forces them to learn necessary skills. I've seen those skills dressed up as games or something on occasion. Most fun apps don't do that, though.

No news here. This excellent blog post is from 2013: Kids can't use computers... and this is why it should worry you[1] [1]http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

TL;DR: I want more effort posts/better SNR, so I guess I have to tolerate the human non-effort posts complaining about AI non-effort posts with the hope that it helps retard the rate of non-effort posts vs effort posts. While I'm hoping the AI bubble pops sooner than later, as I still hold out hope that knowledge work will continue to require knowledgeable humans at the helm, I wanted to add on that I think you make a good point. A lot of users online can't read[1], and between a lack of pure reading comprehension, poor media literacy habits draining one's brains and ability to focus, and finally the increase in AI-enabled content, I'm not surprised at how redditor-cultured netizens love to throw up their hands and say "AI;DR!", as if that makes them somehow morally superior. These users won't read dense texts or try to elucidate meaning out of human-written works, they ask for AI summaries or manual "TL;DR" entries as it is, now the AI is use is being used as an excuse to enable mental laziness and lack of attempts to read information. So while I get lost in wikipedia walks because I'm looking for written entertainment for 'learning', they are getting mind-melted by algorithms, therefore, an uncharitable part of me wants to let the meat-proxying continue. And then the other part of me that gets annoyed by having to sift through AI-slop-infested text to see what if any meat there may be in there decides that perhaps that's not as helpful of an attitude as I should take…

> Students have a great deal more privacy at school Not really. Maybe out on the school yard for a few mins, that's expected. You may have not read up on this, but schools have already turned into a surveillance dystopia: https://www.eff.org/press/releases/schools-are-spying-students-student… It's almost as if an advertising-surveillance-company is in charge of our school's IT. > The truth is nothing is private --> defeatism One of my most painful career lessons was never put sensitive things in email! Wish my parents could have taught me that over something inconsequential a decade earlier. Never was and never will be private. That is the lesson. > CS101 Computer science is not software engineering, right? That one trips up a lot of folks. But this comparison stretches even farther, it is not even in the same neighborhood as social media, friends, or fomo. It's often an applied science class (aka programming) where it is very helpful to know a bit of algebra, typing, and the basics of computer hardware. CS theory often starts the second year. The two sets don't overlap at all, but lay folks tend to think so because computers are "magic": http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

when exactly did that happen ? cause up until now I have observed the exact opposite which is coherent with expectations: https://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Especially since kids these days aren't even very good at using computers: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ It seems to me that if someone can read and think critically-- they can RTFM and get much better much quicker at computers and AI than people who spent all their time tapping an ipad to watch the next video.

I had hoped the generations that grew up with the internet would learn how to use computers. Technical advantages like encryption and social advantages like federation tend to make things more complicated to use no matter how much effort is put into UX. Most people did not, in fact learn how to use computers http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

That post pins the shift around 2017, but here's one that mentions it and more from 2013: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

I wrote this about 6 years ago when the then PM was trying to do the same thing - http://coding2learn.org/blog/2017/06/11/dear-theresa/

People can't use computers: http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

This reminds me of a blog article (http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/) that coïncidentally was published in 2013. Or to put it another way, exhibit A of anecdotal evidence.

Kids can't use computers. http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6186730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13506283 Just posting because I was reminded of this

From 2013: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ It's not just teens.

Related, http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ Computers, for the majority of people, are now principally consumption devices, with some small amount of guided typing of tweets and chats (which I think I would argue is effectively consumption still, in much the way that I'd consider someone speaking on the telephone to be a consumer of that service). I would not expect someone who watched a lot of movies to be good at making them; I would not expect someone who reads a lot of books to be a whizz when it comes to typesetting and printing; I would not expect someone who eats a lot of sandwiches to be competent at baking bread; I would not expect someone who watches Netflix and reads tweets to be good at configuring or programming the computer they're using to do it.

Related: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Yup. This article from 2013 captured it quite well, I thought: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ "A kid puts his hand up. He tells me he's got a virus on his computer. I look at his screen. Displayed in his web-browser is what appears to be an XP dialogue box warning that his computer is infected and offering free malware scanning and removal tools. He's on a Windows 7 machine. I close the offending tab. He can't use a computer."

Resonates really well with this blog post where the author explains how people are in constant contact with technology, but lost the skills to understand how it works. http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

The idea that kids or young people are better with computers is not actually true. Yes they can use apps, some of them can install them, but for the most part they are clueless when it comes to actually fixing a problem with a computer. http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

The problem is that the large majority of people, even the youth of today[0], are incredibly un-tech savvy. Unless your website or game is packaged into a simple app you just can't rely on people to visit it or even find it in the first place. [0] http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

> Besides, as the user population ages it's becoming less of a problem. I want to believe. I really do. But I'm not so sure based on personal experience. This article made the rounds recently, and I think it is apt: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Defaulting to "no" would be better, but I can't fully agree with you in the "innocent" part because the real problem are users that can't use a computer, and this is just a tiny annoyance compared to other things that can happen if the user "can't read" and clicks next, next, next without thinking. This was posted to HN recently, and it sums it up nicely: http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

I know that it's superficial, but I have an extremely hard time taking a blog post interspersed with large meme pictures seriously. I think you should only use them if your target audience is teens, and when you're near their age as well, trying to write something "popular". Definitely not when attempting to write a serious post. Note that this is the same blog that recently started a post[0] with: TL;DR? Why not just go watch another five second video of a kitten with its head in a toilet roll, or a 140 character description of a meal your friend just stuffed in their mouth. “nom nom”. This blog post is not for you. which makes this seem quite ironic. [0]: http://www.coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

There is one more important thing here: the 8 bit computer immediately invited you to start coding. The barrier to entry was incredibly low to the point of nonexistent. Compare this to a laptop today or even worse a tablet. I very strongly believe that perpetuating a "code me!" mindset vs the "consume me!" mindset has really big consequences. The ability to make your computer do something that you can do something with, that the kind of game you bought with your computer is something you could attain as well (which is not necessarily true -- some of those games were incredible feats of programming but still the illusion was there) is completely, absolutely missing today. And the consequence is: you get (at least the illusion of) the possibility that you yourself can create something that is easily spread worldwide. The HN readers will argue the huge audience of tablets makes up for this but the problem is -- most people will never even think they can do it. That's the problem: did your iPad came with a manual for a programming language? I didn't think so. Prorgam or be programmed. http://www.rushkoff.com/program-or-be-programmed/ Kids Can't Use Computers http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/ (I know there is a lot of controversy about this article but it does have valid points.)